Touring Oscar Goodman's top-floor City Hall digs, you sense a man who, despite a serious job, doesn't take himself as seriously. Bottles of gin populate a desk in the southwest corner. A severed horsehead sits amid stuffed puppets on a coffee-brown couch. The back wall holds multiple pictures, including one of Oscar nose to nose with a painted-face Samoan wrestler, ready for battle.
As for the man himself? Just returned from speaking with teenagers at youth conference, he laughs his way through a photo shoot, jokes with visitors, one of whom gives him with a lapel-pin that flashes "What Happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas" in red letters. But we're here for a serious talk. After all, Oscar Goodman is our face to the world.
So, what are we doing? I'm the first guy, I think, who'll appear on your cover since you started all this salacious, sensual stuff with the bosomy women, which I love. I like it myself. This could be the slowest edition you'll have.
So, what are we doing?
We're just asking questions.
Why?
Because, well, you're always in the news, but now it's gone up a bit, with the reality show and—
Well, we haven't signed anything with anybody.
What would you do? Would you have them be with you here and at home?
Oh, yeah. That's what they're talking about.
While you and your wife are screaming and throwing things at each other?
Absolutely. That's part of it.
While the hookers are in the house ... ?
The hookers don't come in ...
They stay in the alley—(chuckling all around)
Well, Caroline is very ecumenical, everyone's welcome in her home. (Laughter.)
I really don't know what they're going to do. I personally don't see it as a matter of great interest, I don't think it will be a very interesting show, but other people do, so we'll see what happens.
I was with Wayne Newton last night, and he has his new reality show—
(The interviewers must have looked credulous.)
His may be good...
His'll be boring.
No, no, no, his may be good. They have entertainers from all over, and they'll cull them down, and the winner will actually get a contract and perform in Las Vegas with him. So the winner will make about $100,000.
What he has and what I need, because as the mayor of Las Vegas I need it, and I'm a great believer in, like my TV program that I have, we use no censorship, it's unabridged, the first call that comes in, we take it, I really believe—
Do you ever answer any of those? You know how you always say, "Get back to my office ..."
No, we always do. But I really believe in freedom of expression and I believe that the artist should be the creator, but being the mayor of Las Vegas, I have to have some exercise of control over the finished product. I don't take myself seriously, but I take my city seriously and I take the mayor's job seriously. I'm going to insist that if I make a deal with one of the companies that I at least can say, if it's a horrendous depiction of Las Vegas that's going to do the city harm—I don't care about me personally—but if it's going to do the city harm, I can say, you can't use that.
And they came to you for this?
Oh, I've been contacted by four now.
Four companies?
Yeah, we have not reached out, that's the honest-to-God truth.
They would have to pay you at least a million dollars.
I don't know. I can't take it. Because, as the mayor I'm not allowed to get an honorarium, which that basically would be, for using my office. You just can't do it. If I get a million dollars I'll give it to the city.
You're not going to give it to your wife's school?
Well, $500,000 to the Meadows, $500,000 to the homeless.
We had to ask that.
Well, I've already been exonerated of that.
Exonerated, yeah. But you don't want to go through that again.
I don't care.
Speaking of those high-school kids and the moral majority—
Scary.
—the country's moving to the right, and the Supreme Court nominees are going to get in—
Scary. Very scary. We could lose everything that we've gained by the Roe vs. Wade decision, all that social progress, all that forward thinking. It's scary if we have to go backwards.
Does Vegas then become a haven? Or does Vegas tone down its act so that it doesn't get hammered by the feds, if the country goes more and more right.
Oh, I think we're fine. For Las Vegas, it's almost better that it goes all the way to the right because then it gives those who want to have a good life and enjoy themselves a place to come to and escape the monotony or boredom of cities that would adopt this moral way of living.
Regarding the Bush Administration, I didn't see you out stumping for the Kerry/Edwards ticket. Were you?
Well, to be frank with you, I was not. I had the privilege of meeting Kerry when he came to town the first time. They asked to me greet him at the airport and I rode in the van with him. The Kerry that I rode with was a different kind of Kerry than you saw on the campaign trail. He was basically a very warm, interesting guy, who had a great deal of foreknowledge about Las Vegas.
Then when he got in the room, he became the stiff that the American public thought he was, and that was a shame. I was not asked to take an active role and I've never volunteered for anything in my life, so I wasn't about to volunteer for him.
Kerry needed to win Clark County at least by 30,000 votes to have a chance to carry the electoral votes here. Do you think that if he would've gotten you involved, it would've shored up the tally.
I'm not going to be that presumptuous. I will say that I have a certain degree of popularity. I'm told by the pollsters that if I want something, it has some impact as far as the public is concerned. But I wasn't asked to take that kind of participatory role. So, you know, history is history.
How do you feel about Southern Nevada going to Kerry and the hicks up north went for Bush?
What does it say? I'd say there are two different Nevadas. The same way there are two different Las Vegases. You have the Las Vegas of the Strip for the tourists, you have the Las Vegas the neighborhoods for the locals. You have the south, which is represented by Clark County, and then you have the rest of the state, which is the antithesis of it.
Maybe we should ban those people.
Maybe we should secede. We could be the 51st state.
Have you had a chance to gauge your popularity outside of Las Vegas, in those northern, in those rural counties?
I've been out there, but I can't say so as much since I've been the mayor as beforehand. I tried many cases around the state in areas you wouldn't think a northerner would've played well or an easterner would've played well and I always did very well up there.
I could play well throughout the state. I don't have a problem with the cows, nor with Washoe. They may think I'm a little crazier up there than they think I am down here because they're not used to me.
Political operatives say that Nevada Republican Rep. Jim Gibbons is the heir apparent to the governorship. These same people say you want to run for it.
No, I'm the happiest mayor in the universe. You have my chip don't you? [Hands out poker chip with his mug.]
I thought it was the world?
Universe. Let's face it, the best job ever, at least doing it the way I like to do it...
Can you beat Gibbons?
Could I beat Gibbons? I never thought I could lose anything in my life. I have no desire to be anything other than a good mayor of the city of Las Vegas.
You want to do this until you're dead?
You're only allowed three four-year terms, but there's always a write-in. If they wanted me mayor for life, I could figure out a way to do that.
You won your last election by a huge margin. It plays into your political aspirations. If you're doing so well here, why not consider higher office?
Because I could get more done in Las Vegas than I think a governor can get done for the state of Nevada. A governor has to work with the 63 people in Carson City, whereas I have a very collegial City Council that has adopted the vision I perceive for the city of Las Vegas.
In regards to downtown Vegas, you don't have power of the school ...
I don't have any direct power, although I will tell you that I am only one of two mayors who has participated in this teaching program in the country where they bring teachers into communities to teach at schools of lower poverty levels than average.
The school that would be the school for my kid is one of the poorest achieving ...
What we have to do ... what we have to really ... in the 61-acre piece, we really have to consider having a charter school.
Otherwise, we're going to have to move ... a lot of people down there are going to move out.
I spoke to some of the school board trustees. I have a concept. I went to an all-boys high school. You had to take a test to get in there. Kids from all over Philadelphia ... It was like the greatest honor to go there. It's one of two high schools in the United States that had a president of the high school rather than a principal. It's almost like a college. You got a BA when you graduated-—and you had to take a test and they came from all over. I would like to have that type of school downtown. The one that is the most academically challenging where you really have to be ... almost like The Meadows School, to be honest with you. But make it public.
Any way from your seat to help improve the schools we have down there?
Very, very tough. What you do is you go to your school-board trustee and say I write for a very prominent alternative publication and I'm gonna do an exposé.
I wanted to segue back to the issue of higher office ...
Why are people doing this to me?
This is different. The notion that the City Council is the junior circuit and the County Commission is the true seat of power. Would you ever consider running for County Commission?
No. I love the city of Las Vegas. This is my city. I've got my work cut out for me to accomplish all the dreams that I want and much of what I do, unfortunately, is fighting everyone around me instead of their supporting us to achieve what we want to achieve. You almost have to circumvent or go through them, one or the other, in order to get something done.
Why not take what you've done here to a bigger stage?
I don't consider it a bigger stage. Of course, they [county commissioners] have different responsibilities ...
They have the Strip.
I think that if everybody was altruistic and had the area's best interest at heart that we would consolidate and we would be the city and county of Las Vegas, but politics being what it is and folks having their fiefdoms as they do, we're not going to be able to achieve that as politicians.
The only way we're going to be able to have that happen is what happened in Louisville, where the city of Louisville and the county there became greater Louisville and it was a business initiative. Businessmen felt there was a duplication of efforts. I, myself, my greatest fear and the only thing I have nightmares over, is I think back to September 10, 2001.
Rudy Giuliani was a bum. His life was in shambles. His personal life was in shambles. The city of New York was really angry at him. All sorts of problems. On September 11, he became one of the great mayors of all time because he addressed the disaster. But he did it with a fire chief on one side and a police chief on the other side and he told the public the truth.
Here, it would be like the Tower of Babel if we ever have a problem. We've got, what, four different mayors in the Valley? We've got commissioners. At least three fire chiefs. A sheriff and three police chiefs and everybody's going to be pushing each other out of the way. It's gonna be, it could be a disaster. And the only way that's going to be able to be ameliorated is if we become one community and that's the right thing to do.
Is that why you stopped ... at one point in time, you were really harping on consolidation. Is that why you've kind of toned down?
Right. Because I speak to the business ... last night, I met with about seven wealthy businessmen for a lot of reasons ... a little bit of society, at the same time I'm going to approach them to make some serious fund-raising efforts for the academic medical center. But I talked to them about consolidation and they all shook their heads. I'm talking movers and shakers in the area. The right thing to do.
But when we began to go into it in depth, they said they were scared to do it. I said, "Why be scared to do anything?" Because they are licensees and don't want to incur the wrath of the county commission by being the movers and shakers that would make this happen.
Look, perfect example ... Kevin Kelley was there; Kevin's the president of, what, the Hard Rock.
I think the Hard Rock ads are the greatest in the history of the world. I think they're cool and I think that they're sensuous and I believe that when people look at these ads they smile to themselves and they can't wait to go to the Hard Rock.
But they buckled in and, you know, they'll give you a million reasons as to why and paid a $100,000 fine to the gaming commission because the Gaming Control Board felt that they were doing something which was adverse to the interests of gaming. That's bull. I don't think the the Gaming Control Board should dictate First Amendment adverstising on the part of its constituency. But people do things because they want to be at peace and just live in the community and make money.
Is there any hope, anything on the horizon, showing that this area might diversify its economy?
Yes, yes, of course, oh yeah, what I'm talking about. Look, I may have used a poor choice of words in a joking manner which has been taken very seriously by the folks in High Point, North Carolina. But we are going to become the furniture capital of the world.
How have you been able to do all this when your predecessors did so little?
I've been a lucky fellow. I got into this.
That's the easy answer.
Well it's true. I got into this position after 35 years of working very, very hard representing unpopular people and unpopular causes, but able to generate enough money that friends of mine, who said, "You know, Oscar, you spend every cent you make, let us invest some money for you." Friends who did not cheat me but actually took my money and invested it in real estate here that I thought would inure to the benefit of my great, great, great grandchildren. And I've become ... I'm not the wealthiest guy I know, but I can buy and sell anyone that wants to bribe me.
So your wealth kind of inoculates you from the cronyism?
I came up here ... I'm the first mayor who has made this a full-time position. Basically, it's based on a salary. There's nothing wrong with $50,000 a year (pause). I made $50,000 a week. I'm doing this for a lot of reasons different than ... I had a pretty good life before I came up here. I had my showbiz friends. I had done the movie Casino. Running in those kind of circles. Representing big-shot criminals all over the country who treated me like a king. I set that all aside and came up here in order to pay back a city that has given me ... and it's all cliche-ish and I would laugh if somebody said it to me if I heard it—but I couldn't have done this anywhere else in the world.
But it's one thing to talk to these moneyed investors. It's anotther to get them to open their pockets. How have you done that?
I understand. Well, some people have said that I've willed it, that I've willed what I want to see down here. That there was no substance behind anything I was saying. Then, as as result of my big mouth, and the fact that I am a mob lawyer turned mayor, that people listen to me. We had write-ups in the New York Times, Sunday edition, front page, not the adverse stories but the positive stories about the 61-acre acquisition, major story in U.S. News and World Report shortly thereafter. The phone that hadn't rung here (picks up phone) in a year and a half began ringing like crazy. Every single day, I have three, four, five groups come up, talk to me about coming to the fastest-growing city in the world. It's cool. I mean, I love it. I can't get enough of it. I'm not going to tell you it's like a narcotic, but it's like a narcotic.
Going back to development: City Center (by MGM Mirage), the $4 billion venture on the Strip, like Disneyworld. It'll almost be like a little Vegas. Do you have to combat that?
Of course I do. But I think their product is going to be different from ours. I anticipate our product in the downtown are people like you. I want to make sure we keep the teachers here, the cops down here. I want neighborhoods and these places we're talking about in the downtown, these people are going to live here.
Two things: One, why hasn't your magic touch worked on Neonopolis and ...
Well, Neonopolis [pause] isn't through.
Uh, Neonopolis, uh, I guess was designed to be a little bit like Horton Plaza. The difference is we've got this oppressive heat that just rips its way down and there's no way through it without any air conditioner, without any of the misters. It's a very difficult, it's a difficult place for people to enjoy themselves. I think it was probably not designed the right way, and whoever's going to buy it is going to have to rectify that.
Tons of redevelopment downtown. When will portions of East Las Vegas, West Las Vegas get the same attention?
Oh, it is getting the attention. I think we get a bad rap as far as East Las Vegas. We've put in the Latin Chamber, the East Las Vegas Community Center; it's a beautiful facility. We take good care of the parks down there.
I don't necessarily define West Las Vegas as just the historic westside. I look at West Las Vegas at Rancho and Bonanza, where you have Cox Broadcasting, you've got the new Terrible Herbst car wash. These don't sound like much, but they're substantial investments.
We took a hit on the VA because that clinic, in my opinion, was structurally unsound. There's politics that we'll never know about as far as that's concerned.
Look. We're not having the activity there that we're having here, but I've learned something. The toughest lesson for me to learn as the mayor is that I can do all the talking I want, all the willing I want, all the cheerleading I want, but unless the private sector is ready to step up, nothing happens. I think I've been able to instill a degree of confidence that what I talk about will in fact actualize itself and the private sector has bought into it.
Are you going to be partying with Murphy and Tabish' lawyers tonight?
No.
What do you think of that verdict?
I never talk about a verdict unless I'm a lawyer in the case. I didn't follow it that closely.
I'm surprised.
At the verdict?
Yeah.
It shows that no matter how much the jury is instructed that the defendant has no obligation to take the witness stand, that the burden of proof is on the prosecution and the prosecution alone, they like to hear from somebody. And Tabish sat up there for two days and looked them right in the face, and while some of his answers might not have been the answers you would have given, I think the fact that he went through that gruelling two-day experience, that probably walked him out of there. It was a stunning verdict.
Talk about ethics for a minute. The Ethics Commission ruled that you broke ethics. You're not used to losing.
I think they had something like 18 counts against me. At the end of the day, they did not find that I willfully violated any of them.
Were you just being a good father?
Well, no. I personally knew the law. As soon as they come down with the opinion, I planned to go to court about it. Basically, they said that when my name was used for an invitation back in a Conference of Mayors, there's an ethics case right on point involving Frank Hawkins, who was a city councilman here. And Hawkins had a golf fund-raiser and he invited folks who did business with him on the city to attend and he invited folks who did not appear in front of the City Council, of which he had no influence. These mayors certainly don't appear in front of the City Council. They didn't have to come to the party. It wasn't as if I exercised any dominion or control over them. The Ethics Committee in the Hawkins case said, yes, Frank, you violated the ethics laws as far as the folks that appear in front of you on the council, but those who don't appear in front of you, those who appear in front of the County Commission and not the City Council, no violation. I'm the same as that. What I did in Boston had nothing to do with Las Vegas.
In your office, don't let your family benefit from anything you do. You just don't do it. Didn't somebody here ever say that you can't do it?
Would I say to my son. ... I can't buy property in the redevelopment boundaries ... I see no difference between you and my son who hears me talking all the time about downtown Las Vegas.
There's a difference, you know there is.
No, no, no. I talk all the time about downtown Las Vegas, this is the place to be, if I were allowed to invest here, this is where I'd put my money. If you were to go downtown and purchase a piece of property down here, you'd be doing nothing wrong. You're not abusing City Hall, you're not abusing any insider information. If my son does the same thing, he's entitled to do it. I'm not going to limit my family from ...
You have to.
I won't. I won't. I won't even think about that.
It's not the way people in public office are supposed to think.
I don't care.
You're there not to help your family but the community.
I'm not helping my family. My son did this independently of me.
You still had him at this meeting with all these mayors.
We think differently. I'm not going to apologize for it.
This is something you just don't do.
What I could do, my friend, is lock myself in a building and don't come out and I won't make any mistakes.
So it was a mistake?
I'm not admitting it.
Was this town better when the mob ran it?
Different town, different personality. Never had a written contract with any of my clients. We did business with a handshake.
Back when you were running against Arnie Adamsen for mayor in 1999, a story talked about how you owned 18 pieces of property. You revealed some of the information ...
I would not disclose who my partners were.
Why?
Very simple. I took a big hit in the polls as a result because I didn't have that many friends in the media saying I should be the mayor and I wasn't about to embarass somebody because they owned a piece of property with me, to have their linen, be it clean or dirty, to have it washed in public. I made it very clear that, if elected, I would make full disclosure. The day I was elected, I put down every single person I had a partnership interest with. I just felt that innocent people, because they had a partnership with me, shouldn't have to be abused by the media.
Why did you meet with Suge Knight in 2001?
I wanted Suge to come here. I know Suge.
He's an ex-felon, a gang member.
I don't care. Suge had Death Row Records. I was looking to bring in new businesses, create new jobs here.
Is that the type of business ...
I'm not a moralist. I'm a pragmatist. If he could have brought a major record club or producing business into our downtown, I would have welcomed him.
Are you still the meanest mayor in the nation as it relates to homelessness?
No, I'm probably one of the most progressive mayors in the country. We've had the director of the president's homeless council come out here. I met with him as well back East. We've signed on to a 10-year plan. We're one of the few cities that is making strides to keep the homeless from becoming homeless. We're building transitional houses. We're making sure the homeless get identification. The homeless know I'm not wrong.
Are you worried about the city's popularity increasing the likelihood of a terrorist attack?
I've been in contact with [Homeland Security Secretary Tom] Ridge. I'm in touch with the sheriff. We have our own emergency operations director and we speak constantly and continually about these issues. I think Las Vegas is probably the safest place on earth.
Even with all the new high-rises?
Our hotels have their own little police forces, some of them bigger than those in small towns. I think Metro is attuned. We're very aware of it. I don't lose any sleep over terrorism.
Don't we have to stop Yucca Mountain, though?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. One of the things that disappointed me with the kids at the Sun Youth Conference, because they absolutely abandoned any resistance to Yucca Mountain. They feel that we should get money in return. You're prostitutes. You're nothing better than a whore. That's what I said to these kids. They feel it's a done deal, I don't.
Is there a possibility we could get brothels downtown? Would we even want them?
I brought that up at the Sun Youth Forum, and they were aghast. They said no matter what kind of brothels you might have, there'd still be hookers on the street. These hotel owners would build magnificent buildings in a red-light district.
You've talked to these hotel owners?
I'm not going to tell you.
Who?
I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to advocate brothels. [Flipping through Yellow Pages] When you look here—full-service Japanese girls come to you. Full-service companion to your room. Blue-eyed, blonde college girls. Largest adult private parties. I mean, come on. No tax benefits, no health assurances. Moralists would say how could we put a government stamp of approval on it? I've had this conversation with my wife, and the older women I speak to are in favor of it.
Your wife?
No.
Are you more popular than Jesus Christ?
That's not even funny.